Frameworks serve many different purposes - there is no 'apples to apples' comparison. I think the "web" or "controller" frameworks (Model-Glue, Mach-II, FB) are over-emphasized by the CF community. In MVC apps, the C should be the least important piece of your application, and they are irrelevant if you are doing something with a rich client or strictly back-end. I'm not saying don't use them, but you should know that which one you choose should be relatively low on the scale of architectural concerns.

Frameworks help to develop understandable code, so that a team of developers can work together, even if they don't know each other in person. And years after starting a project you can simply add new features without needing to develop from ground up.

I think the idea of frameworks making the maintenance of applications easier, while true, is a hard sell. It is hard for people to wrap their head around "maintenance" while they are trying to find the easiest/least expensive way to develop their app. I think it would be better to promote the idea of an oop framework allowing for changes and expansion of an application easier and much less of a headache. I am currently working on an application which has grown quite large and is in need of some significant changes...new database for example. If I had used a true oop framework to develop it, it might be easier to make large sweeping changes. Additionally, it is important to note, there is a place for procedural application design. It tends to be much more straight forward and much quicker to write. I am using a framework called PLUM which is essentially a procedural framework. I could not have done it as quickly (or considering this is actually my first development attempt, at all) with out plum. Plum is a framework built on custom tags and cfc's, but not necessarily MVC. Check it out at www.productivityenhancement.com Mark Fuqua

They need more documentation for newbie users like tutorials, tips and tricks and so on.

Frameworks are highly useful in certain situations. On the other hand, they can also be limiters in what you are able to accomplish within the framework.

Many frameworks are too much about philosophy and too little about design, programming and presentation.

Any method the separates data from logic from design is critical to solid web development no matter the size of the site.

Frameworks can be useful but they're not an end to themselves. My biggest peeve with current frameworks is using xml for configuration. Nothing wrong with xml but it's imho not a proper use. Use Rails as an example. Saw one recent example where the guy used three xml files to configure the program, one for model glue, one for cold spring and another for reactor. If three are good, why not five or six? I am not knocking any of those programs but to me asking developers to get their head around three different xml configurations is lunacy. Programmers as a group love complexity and I will include myself in that group. But to me complex code should be to hide the details so a framework is both simple yet powerful, that's an achievement. If we are to grow the CF community the framework architects need to keep that in mind.

Frameworks are great. They provide a common ground for a group of developers. I got hired because I knew CF, FB3, and SQL Server 2k, so, they knew I could jump right into the team.

Fusebox Rulz! Seriously though FuseBox + MVC allows for easy to teach, rapid to modify, code development.

Frameworks can be good. The biggest issue I have with frameworks is that a (new to CF) developer has to learn coldfusion and the framework. An experience CF developer can and will benefit from an established framework.

They only work if you understand them and plan things VERY VERY WELL.

Previous Question: Do I think frameworks speed up production? I answered "no", but this is only for initial production of an App. On going matinee of an app, Yes, it speeds it up by (if you know the Frame work's way of working) 1. Adding features to the application 2. Isolating and debugging 3. Handing development to other people

Umm, they're nice?

Don't leave home without one

re: question 6. I wouldn't say frameworks specifically speed up production, but a good framework can help enforce sensible/logical separations, which help to reduce production/maintenance time, and make applications easy to understand. (However frameworks can also be overly confusing; a framework being good/bad depends on how well it fits with the way someone's mind works.)

Need to be trimmed down, tend to be overly complicated for simple things. I have a customized version of fusebox that is much simpler (granted it is not as flexible, but I do not need that flexibility), it follows the core of what fusebox is, but lacks a lot of the fusebox code that newer version have.

Frameworks are a huge benefit in a multi developer environment to help all developers work under the same type of approach and to keep people from stepping on each others' toes.

They support multiple developers working on a project and make the code easier to maintain.

some of these frameworks are too complex for the own good

everyone who does cf should use a framework or methodology, it helps me be better coders and speeds up production

I am holding out for a better framework

Mach II baffles the s*** out of me

Frameworks help up shape up the structure of the application. In many ways, it’s similar to the railings along the long winding staircase of application development. Without the railings, there is always the danger of falling down, especially as the complexity of the application grows.